I had to look up what Soar Alba meant. I'm fed up with getting bombarded with 'Yes' campaign stuff on my Facebook page, I certainly don't want to see it here.
I don't know what it means either but I can guess.
I can understand why independence is such an appealing idea because every time Cameron or one of his cronies opens their mouth I feel more disenfranchised myself. However I am fed up with the idea being put about by some quarters that because I'm English I can't possibly share Scottish values of socialism and putting people first, etc, etc. Its divisive bullshit.
I voted delete topic too :)
I don't know what it means either but I can guess.
I can understand why independence is such an appealing idea because every time Cameron or one of his cronies opens their mouth I feel more disenfranchised myself. However I am fed up with the idea being put about by some quarters that because I'm English I can't possibly share Scottish values of socialism and putting people first, etc, etc. Its divisive bullshit.
I voted delete topic too :)
Never thought I'd post on this topic...
Jackie, I bought a book years ago (about 100 pages long) by the writer Alasdair Gray (of Lanark fame) called 'Why Scots should rule Scotland'. To be honest, I don't remember much regarding the arguments put forth except that he begins the book by defining what a Scot is, for the purposes of his discussion, and the short version is if you are resident in Scotland (by birth or emigration) and living and paying tax, then it doesn't matter where you were born - you get a say in the future of the country. It's not a foolproof idea, but it's a good starting point. I'm sick to death of people like Sir Sean of Connery, Earl of Marbella constantly harping n about it when he's probably lived in Scotland for about a quarter of his life, and that was probably the first quarter. The Big Yin isn't much better either!
I got the YES campaign paper through the letterbox the other day and had a look at it. Some of the 'arguments' are so thin it's unbelievable. I'm not against the idea of independence but I have yet to see a serious argument that we could afford to do it. As far as I am concerned, it's like buying a house. You might like the house but can you afford to buy it? Can you afford to maintain it? Can you afford to run it? I've yet to see a solid financial argument that supports independence. The sooner people remember it's not an emotional decision the better, it's a business decision.
Can we get Lord Sugar to interrogate Salmond and Sturgeon? (something fishy there), what about Dragon's Den? It's all very well the YES campaign criticising the Better Together lot (Not Much Better campaign would be more accurate) but I think the onus is on the YES campaign as they are seeking to change the status quo.
Good grief, there's a real chance that this time the turkey's will vote for Christmas! Gobble Gobble!
Right, enough of that nonsense, back to the important stuff - it's now February, don't forget to send your SAE to kwaing for the next 'zine, I'll be sending mine away today.
Cheers,
DiD
I had to look up what Soar Alba meant. I'm fed up with getting bombarded with 'Yes' campaign stuff on my Facebook page, I certainly don't want to see it here.Isn't this down to how one "uses" facebook? I don't get bombarded with "yes" or "better together" campaign stuff (or anything come to that) on facebook?!
I had to look up what Soar Alba meant. I'm fed up with getting bombarded with 'Yes' campaign stuff on my Facebook page, I certainly don't want to see it here.Isn't this down to how one "uses" facebook? I don't get bombarded with "yes" or "better together" campaign stuff (or anything come to that) on facebook?!
I voted as I don't think this poll is brought to us via the 'yes', or any other, campaign.
And, DiD, well said.
The biggest issue I have is that the 'policies' in the White Paper, get rid of Trident, repeal the Bedroom Tax etc. are SNP party policies. When I tell my Yes voting mates that I don't want to have Salmond as PM any more than I want Cameron, they tell me that there will be an election that the SNP might not win. In that case will the Labour government or Labour/Tory coalition carry out the white paper policies? I haven't seen Labour coming out against Trident and suspect Miliband wouldn't let them. Too many unanswered questions.
Cheers for the 'Zine' reminder I'll get onto it today as well.
The sooner people remember it's not an emotional decision the better, it's a business decision.I'm equally uncomfortable with the debate surrounding the referendum being a "business" decision as opposed to an emotional one, to be frank. Yes, economics are an important part of many peoples' consideration but, fundamentally, it should be a decision about governance - the economics comes later.
The sooner people remember it's not an emotional decision the better, it's a business decision.I'm equally uncomfortable with the debate surrounding the referendum being a "business" decision as opposed to an emotional one, to be frank. Yes, economics are an important part of many peoples' consideration but, fundamentally, it should be a decision about governance - the economics comes later.
If the Yes campaign were to lay on the table that a Yes vote will cost, say, between 5p and 10p in the pound, but here's a list of things that you then get to make a decision on - welfare, defence, taxation, energy - that would be a basis for people to judge whether the kind of things that they want Scotland to have control over are worth the hassle. But they won't, because all the No campaign have ever come up with is variations on the "that willnae work, by the way" argument, which plays well with those sections of the media that the Yes campaign don't want to piss off.
The No campaign have brought nothing to the table, but the Yes campaign have been weak in setting out the philosophical argument, which will result in the Yes campaign struggling to win over the "mibbes aye, mibbes naw" majority. It's no wonder that Salmond wants Cameron to join the debate - that's their best (only) hope of victory!
It's no wonder that Salmond wants Cameron to join the debate - that's their best (only) hope of victory!
The bookies cut the odds on a Yes vote from 9/2 to 100/30 last week, which is a fairly significant drop.
100/30 in a 2-horse race - the odds would need to come in much further than that for me to start thinking about EU membership or currency unions at anything beyond a passing level...It's no wonder that Salmond wants Cameron to join the debate - that's their best (only) hope of victory!
The bookies cut the odds on a Yes vote from 9/2 to 100/30 last week, which is a fairly significant drop.
100/30 in a 2-horse race - the odds would need to come in much further than that for me to start thinking about EU membership or currency unions at anything beyond a passing level...It's no wonder that Salmond wants Cameron to join the debate - that's their best (only) hope of victory!
The bookies cut the odds on a Yes vote from 9/2 to 100/30 last week, which is a fairly significant drop.
Those odds have been fluctuating over the last few months, though. According to Betfair, the odds on Yes have drifted over the last week.100/30 in a 2-horse race - the odds would need to come in much further than that for me to start thinking about EU membership or currency unions at anything beyond a passing level...It's no wonder that Salmond wants Cameron to join the debate - that's their best (only) hope of victory!
The bookies cut the odds on a Yes vote from 9/2 to 100/30 last week, which is a fairly significant drop.
The trend is that the odds are shortening is what I'm saying. 100/30 is about the same odds that Stan Wavrinka was to beat Nadal in the Aussie Open Final or what Stephen Gallacher was to in Dubai going into the back 9 on Sunday.
The white paper has to be the policies of the government, currently in situ, as they are bringing forward the proposal. That is not to say they will be a reality but rather try to paint a picture, one possible alternative of a starting point for self governance.
Without a tangible alternative document to compare it against, a no vote is a real step into the unknown. What will things look like if we say no? At least the white paper presents one side of the argument we are yet to see what the other side looks like, and it is unlikely that we will see it. It is difficult to argue the cause when the opposition put up nothing and cast continuous aspersions against everything you say.
The question at the end of the day is whether or not the people who inhabit Scotland believe that with the right infrastructure they could govern their own destiny, peaks and troughs. DiD said it is like business, correct, do we believe that we have the confidence to be entrepreneurs or are going to forever be the workforce of the management?
The question at the end of the day is whether we are grown up enough to start running our own country. It's not a business decision. No-one any longer tries to pretend that Scotland can't afford independence except the liars and scaremongers of which there are many. I include the Labour Party in that bunch, together with practically all the press.
Look at the Better Together campaigners and tell me with a straight face that they are trustworthy people.
We can take control of our own futures, or we can let down our country again through apathy and stupidity.
Tir nan og!
The whole thing strikes me as a whole lot of ego on Salmonds part. I think he fancies going down in the history books as some sort of William Wallace. I wouldn't be against independence if there was some sort of concrete argument for it but it all seems a bit wishy washy to me. The apparent Apathy from the UK government is either a master stroke or a dangerous game to play. I hope it's the former.
We're probably all fucked either way, there's nothing left to believe in.
The whole thing strikes me as a whole lot of ego on Salmonds part. I think he fancies going down in the history books as some sort of William Wallace. I wouldn't be against independence if there was some sort of concrete argument for it but it all seems a bit wishy washy to me. The apparent Apathy from the UK government is either a master stroke or a dangerous game to play. I hope it's the former.
We're probably all fucked either way, there's nothing left to believe in.
Hi Filthy,
You sound a bit defeatist. Time to accentuate the positive, and not be one of the 'I kent his faither' naysayers. We have more than we need of that in this country. We have nowt to fear but fear itself. 300 years of union, time for a wee change.
1. So, on that basis, can you show me the figures? Annual spends and how the money will be generated in an independent Scotland to cover it? Persuade me that it is affordable.
2. If we don't vote for independence it doesn't mean we're apathetic or stupid, it just means we don't want it.
yeah, i'm sure the c10wns that 0verspent 0n a j0ke 0f a [n0w crumb1ing] par1iament bui1ding by a fact0r 0f 10, n0t t0 menti0n the fiasc0 that is the edinburgh tram system, have 1earned h0w t0 run a c0untry's finances
keeping sc0t1and in the uni0n is d0ing the wh01e 0f the uk a fav0ur
yeah, i'm sure the c10wns that 0verspent 0n a j0ke 0f a [n0w crumb1ing] par1iament bui1ding by a fact0r 0f 10, n0t t0 menti0n the fiasc0 that is the edinburgh tram system, have 1earned h0w t0 run a c0untry's financesDeegers is right. It was labour, but these things happen under any government, then you can vote them out at the following election and get a new bunch of cunts to have another fiasco, but at least it would be our fiasco with independence. It would introduce an element of responsibility and put an end to moaning about the London government, no bad thing.
keeping sc0t1and in the uni0n is d0ing the wh01e 0f the uk a fav0ur
Being English and living in England I obviously don't get to vote about this but the 'them and us'( ie Scots versus English as opposed to ordinary people v the twats in control) feeling being encouraged in some quarters does frighten and dismay me. Obviously that's not a reason not to hold a vote but its scary all the same.That is something we have to take real pains to avoid. It's not a them-and-us, it's just that this country needs to stand on it's own feet to save itself from slowly decaying.
I thought doing it in order to take responsibility for our own future was a very valid argument.
Independence in my book is a chance to escape from excessive British Nationalism. Falklands, Iraq, nuclear subs, Jonathan Ross, etc etc.
It's been tits up too long.
It's not about money, although it makes sense to spend your own and not complain about it when you have handed it to someone else to spend for you - usually badly.
When it comes to being patronised, we must be some kind of record holders. Why is it patronising to feel sorry for a part of the UK that gets a really bad deal?
Hi Demon,
I don't think the finances are going to get worse at all. Independence would mean a rebalancing of the economy, which at the moment is pretty much run for the benefit of London. It's boom town. It staggers from one massive project to the next sucking in capital and depriving the rest of the UK. Think Olympics, Crossrail Project, HS2 Rail (which they pretend is for the benefit of Northern England, but will just suck more resource into London) just to begin with. We are clearly not all in it together. A couple of recent emergent small facts:
This from the BBC News:
Central government spending on arts and culture in the capital amounted to £69 per resident in 2012-13, compared with £4.60 per person elsewhere in England.
This From The Spectator:
the per capita state spending on transport infrastructure comes out at: south-west £215, north-east £246, Yorkshire and Humberside £303, north-west £839, London £4895.
This is one of my biggest problems with the UK and it will never change. I like London, I like Londoners, but they should do their thing and we should do ours. I feel very sorry for the North of England, but we at least have the opportunity to break with this obscene glorification of London.
If you don't want Independence, then you are doing your country no favours. We have been told we are a charity case for decades, what does that do for our self esteem? Apart from the fact it's a lie. The civil service lied to us for years about the amount of oil, always downplaying it hugely, under Labour, and under the Bastards both, and they are still doing it, constantly referring to Peak Oil having passed.
Things like Trident too, are things we should have no part of. And I don't just mean the huge cost.
Tir na nog I mentioned as a joke but it means Land of Youth and maybe we should think more about their future. Look at the colossal waste of resources keeping so many of them unemployed, and the morale sapping horror of their reality. I would like to think independence would reanimate and re-energise this country. We might have to work a bit harder but that is no bad thing. I'm afraid I cant furnish you with figures on Scotlands output, but even The Financial Times admits its a goer.
We may well be punished for a while for having the nerve to leave the UK, but we will definitely be punished if we stay. Death by a thousand cuts.
Whoops, forgot the quote.I thought doing it in order to take responsibility for our own future was a very valid argument.
Independence in my book is a chance to escape from excessive British Nationalism. Falklands, Iraq, nuclear subs, Jonathan Ross, etc etc.
It's been tits up too long.
It's not about money, although it makes sense to spend your own and not complain about it when you have handed it to someone else to spend for you - usually badly.
When it comes to being patronised, we must be some kind of record holders. Why is it patronising to feel sorry for a part of the UK that gets a really bad deal?
Aye but we have to keep Cumbernauld, Lulu, George Galloway and River City. Swings and roundabouts.
I have to say that I am with Franz here, I would hope that the nation would prosper and flourish, money be available to have a better healthcare system, support the arts and sport but to achieve these things they have to be within our control.Why is it the North of England who will ultimately suffer? speaking as a Geordie who has lived in the East Midlands for 25 years - geographically 2 hours from London and therefore in the South but not benefitting from any of the advantages that supposedly come from that?
I'd rather have a shot at trying to build that legacy for the future generations than the current situation. But it will of course require effort and hard work, and be filled with ups and downs but that is something I can get behind.
I don't think that Scotland counterbalances anything Kenny, we have moved on and the opportunity is now there is do it differently, re-nationalise, safeguard the industries, rebuild what the last 40 years of successive Westminster governments tore down and decimated.
It is the North of England that will ultimately suffer in all of this. Maybes the clamour will be to move per the border, Northwards?
Who knows!
best thread in an age 8)
but i'm not convinced - the money boys rule, and it'll be easier pickings once we've got less clout. the cost of borrowing will rise, and donald trump is just the thin end of the wedge. how much of scotland does scotland actually own? how likely is it that those in power are going to sell off whatever's left as a short term way to balance the books, extend our "be a nation again" celebrations as nothing changes around us, just gets more expensive and more shoddy?
and all this pish about using independence to get the green party in or whatever ... we could've been voting green party or whatever all along. a new scottish labour party then? new scottish tory? think it'll be anything other than the usual suspects squabbling for crumbs?
what was that flyer that fell through the door? "independence will be better for scotland and the people of scotland" from the mouth of some tv actor? such a winning argument. let me think long and hard now ... got it ... "independence won't be any better for scotland and maybe a whole lot worse for the people of scotland".
eh? that oughta do it ;D
Have you been eating unusually high levels of red meat today? Get off that Fence... grrrrrr! ;D
Jackie wrote:
"Why is it the North of England who will ultimately suffer? speaking as a Geordie who has lived in the East Midlands for 25 years - geographically 2 hours from London and therefore in the South but not benefitting from any of the advantages that supposedly come from that?"
I think the North of England already suffers. The further you are from the centre of power, the more marginalised you are. Here in Scotland we at least have a bit of freedom with devolution to make a difference, but we have always been able to wield a bit of influence in London because of the spectre of independence if they dont pay some attention. The North of England doesnt have that benefit.
I have to say that I am with Franz here, I would hope that the nation would prosper and flourish, money be available to have a better healthcare system, support the arts and sport but to achieve these things they have to be within our control.Why is it the North of England who will ultimately suffer? speaking as a Geordie who has lived in the East Midlands for 25 years - geographically 2 hours from London and therefore in the South but not benefitting from any of the advantages that supposedly come from that?
I'd rather have a shot at trying to build that legacy for the future generations than the current situation. But it will of course require effort and hard work, and be filled with ups and downs but that is something I can get behind.
I don't think that Scotland counterbalances anything Kenny, we have moved on and the opportunity is now there is do it differently, re-nationalise, safeguard the industries, rebuild what the last 40 years of successive Westminster governments tore down and decimated.
It is the North of England that will ultimately suffer in all of this. Maybes the clamour will be to move per the border, Northwards?
Who knows!
Jackie wrote:
"Why is it the North of England who will ultimately suffer? speaking as a Geordie who has lived in the East Midlands for 25 years - geographically 2 hours from London and therefore in the South but not benefitting from any of the advantages that supposedly come from that?"
I think the North of England already suffers. The further you are from the centre of power, the more marginalised you are. Here in Scotland we at least have a bit of freedom with devolution to make a difference, but we have always been able to wield a bit of influence in London because of the spectre of independence if they dont pay some attention. The North of England doesnt have that benefit.
Nope still don't get it. In the London Borough of Ealing 50% of people have to claim benefits to be able to afford to pay their astronomical rent. Clearly being near the centre of power isn't doing them any good and the same can be said of thousands and thousands of other people in all parts of the UK. I think the North of England (and indeed all of England) would suffer from a Yes vote in that there are those on both sides of Hadrians Wall who would seek to use it to divide us in a lot of misplaced nationalistic bullshit.
The whole thing strikes me as a whole lot of ego on Salmonds part. I think he fancies going down in the history books as some sort of William Wallace.Sorry, I need to pick up on this point.
Point of information - the tram project was instigated by the (Labour-run) Edinburgh City Council - the Scottish Government only stepped in once the Council had realised that they'd got themselves in so far over their heads with the contract that they risked bankrupting the City.yeah, i'm sure the c10wns that 0verspent 0n a j0ke 0f a [n0w crumb1ing] par1iament bui1ding by a fact0r 0f 10, n0t t0 menti0n the fiasc0 that is the edinburgh tram system, have 1earned h0w t0 run a c0untry's financesDeegers is right. It was labour, but these things happen under any government, then you can vote them out at the following election and get a new bunch of cunts to have another fiasco, but at least it would be our fiasco with independence. It would introduce an element of responsibility and put an end to moaning about the London government, no bad thing.
keeping sc0t1and in the uni0n is d0ing the wh01e 0f the uk a fav0ur
Wonderful use of the comma there, funky. ;)
And now, back to the studio.
Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.No taxation without representation.
Just sayin'.
Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.
Just sayin'.
Oh cool, so that means I get a vote? 'Cause I'm sure as hell payin' taxes... ::)Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.No taxation without representation.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
To be fair, whilst I fully agree with votes for those aged 16+, the SNP did drop the ball by extending the vote only in the Referendum - moral victory would have been assured had the vote been awarded in all Scottish Parliamentary elections. So, only giving this vote in the Referendum could be interpreted as an emotive tactic.Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.
Just sayin'.
Seriously? It's not about the money, it's about the right of the next generation to determine their future, one way or the other.
Can you please list the emotive tactics, on both sides, the pendulum swings both ways I believe.
That was the way I read it. Sorry for being so obtuse. ::)To be fair, whilst I fully agree with votes for those aged 16+, the SNP did drop the ball by extending the vote only in the Referendum - moral victory would have been assured had the vote been awarded in all Scottish Parliamentary elections. So, only giving this vote in the Referendum could be interpreted as an emotive tactic.Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.
Just sayin'.
Seriously? It's not about the money, it's about the right of the next generation to determine their future, one way or the other.
Can you please list the emotive tactics, on both sides, the pendulum swings both ways I believe.
Yeah, I agree there are some odd anomalies in which non-citizens get to vote - Canadians good/Yanks bad, for instance, seems quite bizarre.Oh cool, so that means I get a vote? 'Cause I'm sure as hell payin' taxes... ::)Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.No taxation without representation.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
I don't think anyone was deliberatly being trianglist. At least, no right-angled people were...That was the way I read it. Sorry for being so obtuse. ::)To be fair, whilst I fully agree with votes for those aged 16+, the SNP did drop the ball by extending the vote only in the Referendum - moral victory would have been assured had the vote been awarded in all Scottish Parliamentary elections. So, only giving this vote in the Referendum could be interpreted as an emotive tactic.Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.
Just sayin'.
Seriously? It's not about the money, it's about the right of the next generation to determine their future, one way or the other.
Can you please list the emotive tactics, on both sides, the pendulum swings both ways I believe.
That was the way I read it. Sorry for being so obtuse. ::)To be fair, whilst I fully agree with votes for those aged 16+, the SNP did drop the ball by extending the vote only in the Referendum - moral victory would have been assured had the vote been awarded in all Scottish Parliamentary elections. So, only giving this vote in the Referendum could be interpreted as an emotive tactic.Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.
Just sayin'.
Seriously? It's not about the money, it's about the right of the next generation to determine their future, one way or the other.
Can you please list the emotive tactics, on both sides, the pendulum swings both ways I believe.
As this is going to impact on the whole of the UK (particularly the north, however its defined) perhaps we should all get a vote.are you conceding that point then?
Ok I'm not going to mention London again. I'm reporting myself to the moderator too.
Despite my personal faults or vices, I'd never consider it. I've gotten used to immigration biases, but I always do things by the books.Yeah, I agree there are some odd anomalies in which non-citizens get to vote - Canadians good/Yanks bad, for instance, seems quite bizarre.Oh cool, so that means I get a vote? 'Cause I'm sure as hell payin' taxes... ::)Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.No taxation without representation.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
You could always try electoral fraud to have a say.
I don't know whether including all votes in Scotland to 16+ is a reserved matter, one would suggest that currently it probably is.2 different Bills would need to be amended, and they'd have no chance of amending the Bill related to UK elections, but I still found it surprising that the SNP haven't even commenced discussions on devolved elections as a safety net in case No wins - we could well have a chunk of 16 year olds voting in the Referendum that won't be able to vote at the next Scottish elections in 2016.
Thats like when they stole the land from the native americans and said they didnt have the title deeds.John Brown is STILL looking for those, I hear...
I was joking.Despite my personal faults or vices, I'd never consider it. I've gotten used to immigration biases, but I always do things by the books.Yeah, I agree there are some odd anomalies in which non-citizens get to vote - Canadians good/Yanks bad, for instance, seems quite bizarre.Oh cool, so that means I get a vote? 'Cause I'm sure as hell payin' taxes... ::)Personally, I question any gov/ political move that lowers the age to increase the amount impressionable younger people (and let's face it, who is most educated on financial matters at that age?), and then emotive tactics are employed behind the campaigning.No taxation without representation.
Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
You could always try electoral fraud to have a say.
No I suppose I was quoting you but not very clearly I admit :)As this is going to impact on the whole of the UK (particularly the north, however its defined) perhaps we should all get a vote.are you conceding that point then?
You should take up your right to vote with Dave the Rave, he seems to thing it's only a Scottish thing so he doesn't need to get involved...... ::).
I think we can all agree that Dave the Bridge is a twat.
Harsh
Salmond's a complete dick at times, and prone to self-aggrandising; equally, he's comfortably the best "parliamentarian" in Scotland, and regularly wipes the floor with opponents in debates.
I'd like to see a debate between Salmond and Galloway, that would be a heavyweight fight, (figuratively and literally), worth watching.
Never mind all that independence nonsense, what are we having for lunch?You got there while I was typing :)
Cage match!!!Salmond's a complete dick at times, and prone to self-aggrandising; equally, he's comfortably the best "parliamentarian" in Scotland, and regularly wipes the floor with opponents in debates.
I'd like to see a debate between Salmond and Galloway, that would be a heavyweight fight, (figuratively and literally), worth watching.
Cage match!!!Salmond's a complete dick at times, and prone to self-aggrandising; equally, he's comfortably the best "parliamentarian" in Scotland, and regularly wipes the floor with opponents in debates.
I'd like to see a debate between Salmond and Galloway, that would be a heavyweight fight, (figuratively and literally), worth watching.
I see Galloway managed to piss of both the hard left AND the Scottish Defence League the other night. The man's a prick, but he's clearly doing something right...
Serious question, can anyone on the no side please paint a vision of what the no vote will look like afterwards(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Music/Pix/pictures/2013/4/1/1364823763229/Status-Quo-010.jpg)
so, if we discard the convenient and highly dubious dragging in of the 16+ vote so's they can vote "yes" for now (then shut up again for a whiley), and my own personal request that the referendum be postponed until 2046 to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the battle of culloden thereby proving just how united scotland can be in times of strife, can we please just look at this in wider terms?
with world events as they are, i'd rather be in a gang of nearer 70 million than just 7, and given that politicians are puppets to higher masters, where is the shift away from being net consumers and borrowers to sustainability and then on towards being net exporters/lenders? nowhere that's where.
let's use our new found optimism for running a country (of which there's little left to run) and instead join with our like-minded intelligent thinkers south and west of the border to make the place far tidier and cleaner than we found it.
life's hard enough without kicking in with a decade of chaos and without any solutions to the problems that affect us all. what's the rush? let's see the figures.
once we've had some proper insight into what exactly will happen, only then will i vote on whether fife remains part of scotland or not.
so, if we discard the convenient and highly dubious dragging in of the 16+ vote so's they can vote "yes" for now (then shut up again for a whiley), and my own personal request that the referendum be postponed until 2046 to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the battle of culloden thereby proving just how united scotland can be in times of strife, can we please just look at this in wider terms?
with world events as they are, i'd rather be in a gang of nearer 70 million than just 7, and given that politicians are puppets to higher masters, where is the shift away from being net consumers and borrowers to sustainability and then on towards being net exporters/lenders? nowhere that's where.
let's use our new found optimism for running a country (of which there's little left to run) and instead join with our like-minded intelligent thinkers south and west of the border to make the place far tidier and cleaner than we found it.
life's hard enough without kicking in with a decade of chaos and without any solutions to the problems that affect us all. what's the rush? let's see the figures.
once we've had some proper insight into what exactly will happen, only then will i vote on whether fife remains part of scotland or not.
I suppose if we all felt like this, there would be no Fence Records?
so, if we discard the convenient and highly dubious dragging in of the 16+ vote so's they can vote "yes" for now (then shut up again for a whiley), and my own personal request that the referendum be postponed until 2046 to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the battle of culloden thereby proving just how united scotland can be in times of strife, can we please just look at this in wider terms?
with world events as they are, i'd rather be in a gang of nearer 70 million than just 7, and given that politicians are puppets to higher masters, where is the shift away from being net consumers and borrowers to sustainability and then on towards being net exporters/lenders? nowhere that's where.
let's use our new found optimism for running a country (of which there's little left to run) and instead join with our like-minded intelligent thinkers south and west of the border to make the place far tidier and cleaner than we found it.
life's hard enough without kicking in with a decade of chaos and without any solutions to the problems that affect us all. what's the rush? let's see the figures.
once we've had some proper insight into what exactly will happen, only then will i vote on whether fife remains part of scotland or not.
I suppose if we all felt like this, there would be no Fence Records?
what on earth is that supposed to mean??
I'm not sure whether I'm pro-Independence, but I'm certainly pro-Independents.
Except Apple - they suck.
I'm not sure whether I'm pro-Independence, but I'm certainly pro-Independents.
Except Apple - they suck.
?!? The record label or the computer company? Pray tell?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_record_labelI'm not sure whether I'm pro-Independence, but I'm certainly pro-Independents.
Except Apple - they suck.
?!? The record label or the computer company? Pray tell?
so, if we discard the convenient and highly dubious dragging in of the 16+ vote so's they can vote "yes" for now (then shut up again for a whiley), and my own personal request that the referendum be postponed until 2046 to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the battle of culloden thereby proving just how united scotland can be in times of strife, can we please just look at this in wider terms?
with world events as they are, i'd rather be in a gang of nearer 70 million than just 7, and given that politicians are puppets to higher masters, where is the shift away from being net consumers and borrowers to sustainability and then on towards being net exporters/lenders? nowhere that's where.
let's use our new found optimism for running a country (of which there's little left to run) and instead join with our like-minded intelligent thinkers south and west of the border to make the place far tidier and cleaner than we found it.
life's hard enough without kicking in with a decade of chaos and without any solutions to the problems that affect us all. what's the rush? let's see the figures.
once we've had some proper insight into what exactly will happen, only then will i vote on whether fife remains part of scotland or not.
so, if we discard the convenient and highly dubious dragging in of the 16+ vote so's they can vote "yes" for now (then shut up again for a whiley), and my own personal request that the referendum be postponed until 2046 to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the battle of culloden thereby proving just how united scotland can be in times of strife, can we please just look at this in wider terms?
with world events as they are, i'd rather be in a gang of nearer 70 million than just 7, and given that politicians are puppets to higher masters, where is the shift away from being net consumers and borrowers to sustainability and then on towards being net exporters/lenders? nowhere that's where.
let's use our new found optimism for running a country (of which there's little left to run) and instead join with our like-minded intelligent thinkers south and west of the border to make the place far tidier and cleaner than we found it.
life's hard enough without kicking in with a decade of chaos and without any solutions to the problems that affect us all. what's the rush? let's see the figures.
once we've had some proper insight into what exactly will happen, only then will i vote on whether fife remains part of scotland or not.
Who will vote for President Kwaing, The People's Socialist Democratic Reupublic of Fife ? ;D ;D
The whole thing strikes me as a whole lot of ego on Salmonds part. I think he fancies going down in the history books as some sort of William Wallace.Sorry, I need to pick up on this point.
Salmond's a complete dick at times, and prone to self-aggrandising; equally, he's comfortably the best "parliamentarian" in Scotland, and regularly wipes the floor with opponents in debates. So, different strokes and all that.
What it's unfair to suggest is that the Independence Referendum is some sort of vanity project. Salmond leads a party whose main manifesto aim is independence. This party won a majority in the Scottish parliament, so a referendum was inevitable during that period of government, no matter who was the leader of the SNP at the time.
If Salmond HADN'T called a Referendum, his party's entire raison d'etre would have been fundamentally undermined.
And now back to the studio.
how much of scotland does scotland actually own?
best thread in an age 8)
Kwaing said "i have asked this of the "yes" camp many times:- what exactly will be better in an independent scotland?"
How about none of our tax spent on trident?
figures after the "no" vote? well, we're living with those figures right now, and i only imagine they'll go up as with the rest of the uk. pensions are fecked, insurances and n.i. will go up, fuel costs will rise, the nhs will stumble forward, the tories might last another 4 years meaning a bigger swing back to labour who will no doubt carry on as the tories are doing, each of them selling off whatever's left to sell while we all wait on the next bit of technology.Y'see, THIS is the bit that leaves me hovering over the "Yes" button.
does anyone really think that in an independent scotland we'll suddenly be rid of the professional politicians and the big business that steers them? will the rules change so much that it'll be far easier to start up a radical political party and change people's mindsets to be willing to work harder and yet do with less?
i have asked this of the "yes" camp many times:- what exactly will be better in an independent scotland?
Anyone seen this?:
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/referendum/8692-electoral-commission-rules-out-monitoring-of-indy-campaign-literature
Scandalous. Both sides of the Yes and No debate should be very scathing about this decision. But I suspect campaign teams on both sides will now consider it open season, which will just make things all the more confusing for the Don't Knows.
>:(
An English man speaks:;D Brilliant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjbuTckpcDI
Warning: more swearing in 10 minutes than 3 hours of Wolf of Wall Street.
An English man speaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjbuTckpcDI
Warning: more swearing in 10 minutes than 3 hours of Wolf of Wall Street.
An English man speaks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjbuTckpcDI
Warning: more swearing in 10 minutes than 3 hours of Wolf of Wall Street.
It's official. If we walk out on the UK they are going to stick a huge barbed pole with a hedgehog on the top, up our rear end. Hoots mon.Sounds pretty much like daily life under a Tory government anyway...
Danny Alexander, who is he?(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101015151248/muppet/images/0/05/Beaker.jpg)
Danny Alexander, who is he?(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101015151248/muppet/images/0/05/Beaker.jpg)
Killing time before my flight gets cancelled, I noted that Gideon Osbourne has said a currency union won't work for Scotland, Isn't this good news for the Yes campaign? Won't not be fiscally linked to the rest of the UK make us more independent?
Confused of Edzell
It's barely a currency union now, I usually get funny looks when using Scottish bank notes in England and have had a number of near misses for notes being taken, in the Midlands particularly. One woman laughed and handed a new-style Bank of Scotland £20 note back to me as she thought it was "toy" money. A tout once balked at my £20 note outside Rock City recently...you know things are really bad when touts won't take your money.Killing time before my flight gets cancelled, I noted that Gideon Osbourne has said a currency union won't work for Scotland, Isn't this good news for the Yes campaign? Won't not be fiscally linked to the rest of the UK make us more independent?thats what I thought?? I've no doubt the motives for the announcement from the odeous Osbourne are not good ones, but if it is the case that the remainder of the UK can say no to a currency union isn't it better that everyone knows that?
Confused of Edzell
We live in the Midlands and regularly come back from a trip to the East Neuk with Scottish bank notes (well maybe 1 anyway!). People do check them but that's because they don't see them very often and in the case of very young staff its likely the first time. Once they've checked what they are its always fine. You can't blame them. although years ago my friend who came down from Edinburgh for the week-end took it as a personal insult like she'd hand knitted them herself or something.It's barely a currency union now, I usually get funny looks when using Scottish bank notes in England and have had a number of near misses for notes being taken, in the Midlands particularly. One woman laughed and handed a new-style Bank of Scotland £20 note back to me as she thought it was "toy" money. A tout once balked at my £20 note outside Rock City recently...you know things are really bad when touts won't take your money.Killing time before my flight gets cancelled, I noted that Gideon Osbourne has said a currency union won't work for Scotland, Isn't this good news for the Yes campaign? Won't not be fiscally linked to the rest of the UK make us more independent?thats what I thought?? I've no doubt the motives for the announcement from the odeous Osbourne are not good ones, but if it is the case that the remainder of the UK can say no to a currency union isn't it better that everyone knows that?
Confused of Edzell
Sounds like a weak case from the defence there, I'm with your Edinburger friend ;DWe live in the Midlands and regularly come back from a trip to the East Neuk with Scottish bank notes (well maybe 1 anyway!). People do check them but that's because they don't see them very often and in the case of very young staff its likely the first time. Once they've checked what they are its always fine. You can't blame them. although years ago my friend who came down from Edinburgh for the week-end took it as a personal insult like she'd hand knitted them herself or something.It's barely a currency union now, I usually get funny looks when using Scottish bank notes in England and have had a number of near misses for notes being taken, in the Midlands particularly. One woman laughed and handed a new-style Bank of Scotland £20 note back to me as she thought it was "toy" money. A tout once balked at my £20 note outside Rock City recently...you know things are really bad when touts won't take your money.Killing time before my flight gets cancelled, I noted that Gideon Osbourne has said a currency union won't work for Scotland, Isn't this good news for the Yes campaign? Won't not be fiscally linked to the rest of the UK make us more independent?thats what I thought?? I've no doubt the motives for the announcement from the odeous Osbourne are not good ones, but if it is the case that the remainder of the UK can say no to a currency union isn't it better that everyone knows that?
Confused of Edzell
People don't take enough advantage of the differences in notes - when I used to live in England, I'd fold up RBS £1 notes and hand them over to taxi drivers, etc, as they looked remarkably like Bank of England fivers if people weren't paying attention.;D and there rests the case for staff in pubs, etc in England checking over Scottish notes!
If someone spotted the difference, I'd just grumble about the continued use of £1 notes in Scotland when everywhere else was using £1 coins, and paid up.
Saved me a fortune over the years...
The rest of us get our vote after Scotland win their vote.That's a different vote. I'd like to see more interest from The English in THIS vote.
Next May.
By which time I expect at least one party to be hoovering up disappointed referendumites with a promise or more/less freedom from The English. Labour if NO wins, UKIP if YES wins.
This very poll (above) was already showing an emphatic victory for the "Yes" camp, it's only a matter of time before Salmond is claiming more of the high ground and quoting the hub poll as a true reflection of the referendum outcome.:) my fear is the Tories actually want you to vote Yes although I admit that attempting to goad you all into it might be too clever a tactic for them.
i'm looking at the "no" cardigan full on, in fact, i've stitched another one right on there. double "no". your "yes" campaign is on shaky, shaky ground, and another of your "well researched promises for scotland" has been scotched.
now the "yes" campaign can do what it does best i suppose - oh woe is our nation trodden underfoot by those in westminster. rise and be a nation again/send proud edward homewards.
ha - the somerset levels have a stronger case for independence ya dafties ;D
roll out the stocks for the world two-er ... that reminds me, i've got two-er tickets and programmes (!) to collect from the printers (logs out)now that is good news.
roll out the stocks for the world two-er ... that reminds me, i've got two-er tickets and programmes (!) to collect from the printers (logs out)
ha - the somerset levels have a stronger case for independence ya dafties ;DTwinned with Atlantis?
There must be other English folk on this board with a view? Come on people this is important for us all.Because I am in favour of a federally joined British Isles
There must be other English folk on this board with a view? Come on people this is important for us all.Ooh, dangerous ground. If Salmond really wants an independent Scotland he should let the English decide our fate (just like any other day of the week :P). I reckon the majority would be happy to see the back of us.
There must be other English folk on this board with a view? Come on people this is important for us all.Because I am in favour of a federally joined British Isles
I think it is the wrong question being asked, but I don't think I have a say in the decision as it is currently worded.
It's not like the English invaded and subjugated the Scottish nation four hundred years ago.
Not like Leckers thinks.
I don't think the English should decide your fate -- of course I don't but I do think we should have a view -- this is a very small island and I think this is very divisive and that the politicians are loving it. Divide and Rule and all that.There must be other English folk on this board with a view? Come on people this is important for us all.Ooh, dangerous ground. If Salmond really wants an independent Scotland he should let the English decide our fate (just like any other day of the week :P). I reckon the majority would be happy to see the back of us.
No doubt you already have a view, you're entitled to it, but you cant expect the rest of the uk to have a vote on this surely? It would just be more of the same, where the big country decides and the rest of us have to lump it. Would you want the uk to vote us down so we have to stay in the union? A uk vote would be tantamount to the English deciding.Clearly a vote is not practical for the reasons you point out but I do think we should have a view about it. I would like you to stay because I think we are stronger together - that's it.
Anyway, you wont be seeing the back of us. You'll be allowed in for holidays and that. As long as you can prove your descended from Jock Tamson.
But the rest of the UK DOES have a voice - the issue has been debated in both the Commons and the Lords. The latter, inparticular, was hilarious - loads of grandees from all political parties except those in favour of independence.I didn't say we had no voice - I said I thought we should express a view and not sit back as if the whole thing was happening in a country not our own.
None of the main party leaders actually WANT to engage in a debate in case they end up with egg on their face - Cameron's "rally" a couple of weeks ago was an embarrassment, particularly as he's stated that he won't debate Salmond head-to-head. Farage would probably have a go, but I think he's a bit scared of coming back to Scotland after his last trip...
If I were English I'd certainly have a few questions that I'd want answers to such as, If Scotland pay more into the Union than we get out and we are keeping all the oil revenues then how will this shortfall be met in what's left of the UK, higher taxes? What are you going to do with Trident when we dump them on your doorstep?
They'll do what they always do. Starve the poor, the unemployed and the elderly.
how much of scotland does scotland actually own?
sadly, that's what it comes down to. I wouldn't vote for any of these muppets because not one of them can be trusted. they've already sold the jerseys. and they will do it again and again. I wouldn't lend any of them a fiver never mind indulge them with any kind of 'power'.
so I'm not voting for anything ever again. I know some folk think that's crazy or wrong and they may have a point. but I just can't believe any of them.
aye or naw I really don't see that much changing. it's just going to be soulless cnts telling lies. same old same old.
pissed aff?
nah, quite happy actually :D
Theres a class struggle going on in this country and in most of the 'developed' world, but it's not the usual kind where the workers demand and fight for more of a fair share. This time it's the reverse. The rich and powerful are rolling back all the gains made by the lower orders in the sixties and the seventies, as they stick it to them with astonishing aggression. This means exporting their jobs to low wage economies, and throwing loads of them on the dole, as well as screwing the unions clearly.
The rich have not had it so good in yonks, executive pay rises outstripping everyone else's, whopping bonuses etc. That'll be why they're ordering the water cannons in for London.
Theres a class struggle going on in this country and in most of the 'developed' world, but it's not the usual kind where the workers demand and fight for more of a fair share. This time it's the reverse. The rich and powerful are rolling back all the gains made by the lower orders in the sixties and the seventies, as they stick it to them with astonishing aggression. This means exporting their jobs to low wage economies, and throwing loads of them on the dole, as well as screwing the unions clearly.I don't disagree at all. I just think that splitting it into a North/South divide is far too simplistic and more than anything else I feel that the only ones with anything to gain from all of this are once again the rich and powerful.
The rich have not had it so good in yonks, executive pay rises outstripping everyone else's, whopping bonuses etc. That'll be why they're ordering the water cannons in for London.
I want out from under their incompetence and selfishness. Our own incompetents up here will do a perfectly satisfactory job of fucking things up, and that makes a lot more sense to me.
Has anyone said "you daft racist" yet?
Stop oppressing us by saying what "the English" in that London are like. Or else we'll get our Tory overlords to torch all your wind farms. That kind of in-fighting is just what plays into their hands.
Divide and rule.
Yours sincerely,
Her Majesty, Queen of the North.
Has anyone said "you daft racist" yet?
Stop oppressing us by saying what "the English" in that London are like. Or else we'll get our Tory overlords to torch all your wind farms. That kind of in-fighting is just what plays into their hands.
Divide and rule.
Yours sincerely,
Her Majesty, Queen of the North.
I was debating this with funky in the pub on Saturday before we went to see the mighty MOGWAI.
The true debate has actually been lost in the mix, if we want to (pro’s and cons), do we have the wherewithal to manage our own affairs? Because of the process and the media and the rest of the circus, we have everyone else debating against the SNP vision without putting forward and alternatives, either way.
If we vote yes, then it will be very interesting to see what the manifestos of the other parties will look like but of course at the present time we have the hand of Westminster up their backs, so until the die is cast we will never see the true picture.
I want to see what the Scottish parties are truly saying not what they are being told to say by someone else. I can't undersatnd why they are not using MSP's rather than MP's to front their campaigns. Scottish MP's have no impact on Westminster decisions, very strange!
i've an a1ternative
we use 0ur "unified" sc0ttish v0ice t0 get behind a new p01itica1 party - based in sc0t1and 0r 0therwise - that 0ffers pr0gressive p01itica1 ideas f0r the wh01e 0f the uk, and, g0d f0rbid, maybe even run the entire 0perati0n fr0m the n0rth end 0f this tiny is1and 0f 0urs s0 that we might make a rea1 difference
where is that party? n0w's the time, great thinkers, t0 bring it int0 being instead 0f making things yet m0re c0mp1icated f0r everyb0dy in the uk
i'd rather that than the same 01d, same 01d run by any 0f the current sc0ttish p01iticians, independence minded 0r n0t
I was debating this with funky in the pub on Saturday before we went to see the mighty MOGWAI.You considered that a debate?
the more broony campaigns for a No, the happier I will be. He cuckoo. Two weeks of him and the yes faction will put on 10%.If there was a yes vote it may well be that the rest of the UK would not remain tory forever. However I am becoming more and more convinced that a big part of the rebalance would be "who gives a shit about Scotland they abandoned us". Have I mentioned before that I think its divisive and that I want Scotland to remain part of the UK so we can bring change together!!?
regarding a new unified party, well that is a real positive prospect - but only after a yes vote. Otherwise all the vested interests will still be there, pursuing their own narrow agenda and preventing progress. I think to move on, the rug needs to be pulled from under their feet. So I dont think it can happen on a UK wide basis. But think of the energising effect a yes vote would have on the rest of the UK. Those people who think the uk would be tory forever without scottish labour mps are wrong. The whole set-up would rebalance, to regain equilibrium.
I was debating this with funky in the pub on Saturday before we went to see the mighty MOGWAI.You considered that a debate?
It was just me getting a bit shouty, really...
If there was a yes vote it may well be that the rest of the UK would not remain tory forever. However I am becoming more and more convinced that a big part of the rebalance would be "who gives a shit about Scotland they abandoned us". Have I mentioned before that I think its divisive and that I want Scotland to remain part of the UK so we can bring change together!!?
What I see now is divide and rule.
I live here - it isn't the same people. Its divide and rule.
If there was a yes vote it may well be that the rest of the UK would not remain tory forever. However I am becoming more and more convinced that a big part of the rebalance would be "who gives a shit about Scotland they abandoned us". Have I mentioned before that I think its divisive and that I want Scotland to remain part of the UK so we can bring change together!!?
What I see now is divide and rule.
If there is a yes vote, people in the rest of the UK, (or 'the rump UK' has a certain ring to it) will soon stop feeling that way as they realise what is important is their own domain. I have no doubt that some people will feel spiteful towards us for leaving, but these will be the same people who feel spiteful towards us already, and will feel spiteful towards us if we stay.
What's important for us is to free ourselves of the deadening weight of westminster politics. And another 300 years of prime ministers question time.
Did I mention the military-industrial-city of london complex?
Has anyone said "you daft racist" yet?see above
Stop oppressing us by saying what "the English" in that London are like. Or else we'll get our Tory overlords to torch all your wind farms. That kind of in-fighting is just what plays into their hands.
Divide and rule.
Yours sincerely,
Her Majesty, Queen of the North.
I dont really know what point you're making here. I have never mentioned "the english" and I'm not talking about the english. I'm talking about westminster, and as I previously said, that includes the useless bunch of self serving scottish mps in that number.
you do know all this hasthat's what I was meaning by divide and rule I suppose. I totally understand why you want distance from Westminster I just want us all to stick together that's all.
nothing to do with being
'scottish' or 'english', don't
you? this is about them
and us.
you do know all this has
nothing to do with being
'scottish' or 'english', don't
you? this is about them
and us.
Who are the english left? Not the labour party for sure. They're somewhere to the right of alf garnett.Well there's something we can both agree on :)
I've long said that a Yes vote might actually be a good thing for Labour - freed of the centrist shackles, Scottish Labour would be able to try and reclaim the left-centre from SNP (and would stand a good chance of doing so as disenfranchised Labour voters would probably drift back given half a chance), which would in turn result in Labour activists in England looking north for ideas to steal - voila, a Labour party going back to the position it should be in rather than the "Tories with red rosettes" that make up the current lot.Who are the english left? Not the labour party for sure. They're somewhere to the right of alf garnett.Well there's something we can both agree on :)
kind of obvious that I can't stand the labour party. Bunch of careerist zealots grubbing about in the trough, 4-legs-good-two-legs-bad style.. Can't stand the tories either. Ponces, thieves and robbers. Or the lib dems. Pompous farts. Ever since lord sutch moved on theres no-one.
This caught my eye in the news today.
Downing Street to fly Saltire
Posted at 13:34
Downing Street will raise the Saltire flag this afternoon, ahead of a visit by the prime minister to Scotland tomorrow.
Why would you do that? I reckon the "visit" by the three pro-unionist party leaders, I actually thought we had three pro-unionist party leaders in the Scottish versions of the parties but what would I know, both undermines them and confuses the No vote.
how anyone could be bribed by the
latest 'no' campaign tactics is beyond
me. they are scumbags to a man, and
treating you like dicks. nice one. now
we have mass murderers and economic
halfwits telling us to vote for more powers
by voting for less powers. good luck with
the union after all this - you'll feckin well
need it.
how anyone could be bribed by the
latest 'no' campaign tactics is beyond
me. they are scumbags to a man, and
treating you like dicks. nice one. now
we have mass murderers and economic
halfwits telling us to vote for more powers
by voting for less powers. good luck with
the union after all this - you'll feckin well
need it.
I'm still not even sure i'll vote.
how anyone could be bribed by the
latest 'no' campaign tactics is beyond
me. they are scumbags to a man, and
treating you like dicks. nice one. now
we have mass murderers and economic
halfwits telling us to vote for more powers
by voting for less powers. good luck with
the union after all this - you'll feckin well
need it.
I'm still not even sure i'll vote.
that is even worse than voting yes.
how about johann lamonts latest idea that A vote for no is a vote for Yes. Would that swing it for you?
The offer by the three main party leaders of further devolved powers for Scotland if it votes No in next week's independence referendum is "akin to a statement in a general election campaign", he said.
The Commons Leader added that it was a statement of what David Cameron, Nick Clegg, and Ed Miliband intend to do after the September 18 referendum.
Mr Hague was responding to Tory Christopher Chope (Christchurch) who pointed out that it had been Government policy since 2012 not to offer so called "devo max" in the event of a No vote.
Standing in for the Prime Minister at his weekly question session, Mr Hague told the Commons: "It has been the policy of the Government for some time to be open to further devolution and I gave examples of what we have done in Wales, for instance, during the lifetime of this Government.
"The statements by the party leaders made on this in the last few days are statements by party leaders in a campaign, not a statement of Government policy today but a statement of commitment from the three main political parties, akin to statements by party leaders in a general election campaign of what they intend to do afterwards.
"It's on that basis they have made those statements."
Mr Chope had asked him: "Since 2012 my right honourable friend and I have been supporting the policy of the Government not to offer so called 'devo max' as a consolation prize in the event of a No vote in the Scottish referendum.
"If this is no longer the policy of the Government when and why did it change?
"And what opportunity has there been for this House to express its view?"
I know that a lot of you are very keen to read more stuff on Independence, so without further ado, here's George Monbiot in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/yes-vote-in-scotland-most-dangerous-thing-of-all-hope?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
I know that a lot of you are very keen to read more stuff on Independence, so without further ado, here's George Monbiot in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/yes-vote-in-scotland-most-dangerous-thing-of-all-hope?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
indeed but show some love to the pidge as well.
;)
by the way, does anyone know this guy:
https://id.theguardian.com/profile/kingcreosote/public (https://id.theguardian.com/profile/kingcreosote/public)
I know that a lot of you are very keen to read more stuff on Independence, so without further ado, here's George Monbiot in the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/yes-vote-in-scotland-most-dangerous-thing-of-all-hope?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2
Slightly off topic, but equally gripping - has anyone noticed an odd chemical smell to the milk now that Muller have bought up Wiseman Dairies?even more off topic, do you remember Miss Wiseman from Madras? She was part of the Wiseman Dairies dynasty.
Better the union "dead and buried" than Scotland.
With a few days to go until the end of the empire i am preparing my party snacks as I type. As KC would say - don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.
Seriously though - I am utterly non-plussed by my fellow countryfolks that are on the better together side - you were going to be voting for the status quo but your beloved politicians from westminster have well and truly pissed on your chips. The Union is dead and buried what ever the outcome of Thursdays vote no matter what the result. Those wanting change are not going to shuffle off back to their wee boxes. 97% of those eligible to vote are now registered - keep your fingers crossed we get a full turn out.
Slightly off topic, but equally gripping - has anyone noticed an odd chemical smell to the milk now that Muller have bought up Wiseman Dairies?even more off topic, do you remember Miss Wiseman from Madras? She was part of the Wiseman Dairies dynasty.
:o were you hitching a lift?Slightly off topic, but equally gripping - has anyone noticed an odd chemical smell to the milk now that Muller have bought up Wiseman Dairies?even more off topic, do you remember Miss Wiseman from Madras? She was part of the Wiseman Dairies dynasty.
even, even more off topic, i fell out of a moving wisemans milk van when i was 15 and fractured my skull.
I was a milk boy part time whilst at school.That explains a lot ;)
I took a header out the side door at about 15-20mph whilst singing along to Space covering The Animals 'We've Gotta Get Outta This Place'. True story that. :D
Better the union "dead and buried" than Scotland.
Hurray, Vote Zombie are back!
Better the union "dead and buried" than Scotland.
Hurray, Vote Zombie are back!
Been busy, saving up, converting any savings to yen, eyeing up France, that sort of thing - if it all goes tits up on friday, maybe you can rent my gaff as your holiday home?